DubbaCTrumpetMSU

Well, Ed wanted me to post this in his forum to perhaps get a discussion going...Anyway, I am finishing up my Bachelor's in the fall, and wanting to attend graduate school to pursue an MM in performance, and possibly a DMA afterward.

I am wondering how much of it really matters, when it comes to the name of the school? Does your playing do most of the talking, or does your degree? I.e., if I went to a division 1 school everyone has heard of for my MM, would getting a DMA and a college teaching job be easier than if I went to a division II school, with a smaller atmosphere? I'm just curious to know.

I know you mentioned in a post somewhere that grad school was the time to 'plant your flag', per se, in what you are interested in...here's the thing...I'm interested in a lot. I haven't done much in orchestral studies(but i would like to). I've done more in the wind ensemble/solo/lead jazz/commercial(well, I'd like to learn more about commercial) areas.

Anyway...let's see where this discussion goes...

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Principaltrumpet

First off, almost everyone on here knows we are pretty good friends, so I will start by saying we havent discussed this before.
Here is my OPINION I have not lived life to know whether everything I believe is true:
1) many times great people come from larger school because the competition is more fierce. Though not always the case, some students thrive in a larger setting because they feel they have to prove themselves. In my undergrad I felt there wasnt much competition for me (DubbaC and I were such good friends we didnt care who sat first). Since there wasnt much competition i dont feel I have progressed as much as I need to have. For me, a larger school where there is a likelyhood of a bigger number of good players is where i feel i need to go.
2)Some of the most well known teachers/performers are at the larger schools. These master performers not only can teach the technique of trumpet and other aspects of playing, they can also teach using their experience (how to take an audition, how to get where you want to go (most of them have been there and beyond)).
NOW LETS FLIP THE PAGE
1)Where do you learn the most? For most of us it is in the practice room. I like to think of my lessons teacher more of a mentor. I feel I really teach myself he just points me in the right direction and gives added support and advice. We know ourselves better than anyone.
2)Take a look at symphony rostersor movie list and look at where they went to school. Yes, a LARGE number of them attended either conservatories or large Div 1 schools. However there are quiet a few that attended smaller schools.
3)An example: Grand Valley State...Not only do they have a phenomenal Div 2 foot ball team (3 years out of 5 Nat champs) but look at their trumpet dept. Take a look at the National Trumpet comp School list you will see a large number of finalist from there. There are other smaller schools just like it.
WHAT DOES ALL OF THIS MEAN?
If you are looking for somewhere that you can become a better trumpet player it probably isnt a place the size of a university, It is a 4X4 room. If you are looking for a place to get the best guidance, do your research (there a phenomenal teachers all over the place). And finally, if you are asking from a political side, Pmake a name for yourself so good the person interviewing you wont have time for polotics.

P.S. If you go to a smaller college for your MM you can always make the drive to get a lesson or two with a great person if you feel you need a little more.
P.S.S. I am sure it isnt intirely true, but I was once told that the most recent degree is the one that carries the most weight. most of your smaller universities will not offer a DMA

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Principaltrumpet

I forgot about this too. I guess we hang out too much! http://www.trumpetmaster.com/vb/f131...ime-35415.html (Big School=Big Time?)

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Yamaha "Chicago" C
Yamaha "New York" Bb
Blessing Eb/D
Yamaha 6810S Picc
Bach 2C

Joshua C. Ritchie
http://www.joshuacritchie.com

Hags888

Yes.

Both matter. When you take auditions or meet new people, where you went to school frames their first opinion of you. Often times you can't always let your playing do the talking, and in those cases, where you went to school matters. But, just having gone to a great school means diddly if you can't play. Going to your Juilliards will get your foot in the door faster than going to XYZ state school in the middle of nowhere. But, if you can't play your horn once you've gotten through the door, then it's all for nought.

My suggestion: shoot for the stars and see what happens, but always be aware that the competition never ends, even after you've graduated. The competition just gets harder the farther you travel down the path towards being a professional musician. So, it's in your own best interest to study with the best teachers possible, at the best schools possible, in the most musically vibrant cities possible.

Good luck.

MJ

You really need to think this one over and I think you are doing the right thing by posting here. A couple of thoughts and I will weigh in later as well.

First of all is this what you really want to do? Are you 100% sure you want to teach at the college level. If so you will be racking up student loans and not making money for the next 5-8 years at least. When you get out with that DMA the competition will be fierce and you will be competing for jobs that start in the mid to high $30,000 s from what I have seen.

If this is what you really want to do and you can't see yourself doing anything else great! Go for it.

I believe strongly that unless you are incredibly motivated the peer group you surround yourself with matters immensely. If you are at a small school and a big fish in a tiny pond are you really going to be pushing yourself to work as hard as the kids at Northwestern, Juilliard, Eastman, IU etc etc.

Are you going to be keeping yourself up to that standard in the practice room. With out peers around you playing at an incredibly high level and pushing you I think it is hard to do.

More later.

MJ

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stchasking

None of it matters, if you participate in blind auditions.
Only the lower tier symphonies that do not have blind auditions are looking for where you went to school.

A properly run audition is blind from the start and your initial submitted recording gets you in to the process. When you are invited to the audition the judges should never see you or know who you are. Your playing gets you in.

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ecarroll

Russ,

Thanks for bringing this discussion out of the private bin. I'm very interested in what others have to say on this subject.

My obvious question to you askes why a "division 2" school? I strongly believe that the most important factor in choosing a a place to study is who your peers will be, not necessarily who you will be studying with. The quality of your peers (tenor players, drummers/violinists, clarinetists, not just trumpeters) determine the creative energy found in a particular school. Also, and this is VERY important, the friendships that you make in school, especially graduate school, often determine to some degree where your career will go later. Friends open doors for friends.

Regarding "name" schools on your transcript, if you plan to play it doesn't matter in the least what piece(s) of paper hang on your office wall (except for the above). If you plan to teach, yes, it might be proove to be important where you went to school. If I'm the head of a DMA search committee and have to choose between inviting one of two candidates to interview and one has an MM from Eastman and the other from the University of Southern North Dakota at Hoople, who do you think I'm going to choose?

I think you should probably try to run with the big dogs and keep practicing until asked to join a pack. We can name colleagues who are exceptions to the above, but they're just that -- exceptions.

Best,
EC (non-exceptional)

trumpetnick

My limited experience shows, that as far as orchestral auditions are concerned, who you studied with and wether the college has a good reputation matters. But matters only for the decision of the panel to invite you to the audition or not. Once you get invited what seems to matters is your playing, personality, occasionely your own network and reputation as player. Knowing personally guys for the panel and having good relationships with them maybe useful, but does not ensure you to win the audition. I am not much in the teaching business for the moment, so I would let the others to comment about.

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DubbaCTrumpetMSU

Well, thanks for all the great info. I figured this would be a good place to share this, and turns out, it was. MJ, I am sure this is what I want to do. Knowing I can't hack it as a true professional, such as a recording artist, etc, this is my second dream to being a pro(though, I know that's kind of misleading, because most professors would consider themselves pros...what I mean by that, is that playing probably won't end up being my end-all means of income). Good thing about this level, I guess, is that I can still go and play...most professors hold spots in bands/symphonies.

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Vulgano Brother

I’ve gotten to work with some real good musicians over the years, and most of them didn’t have a DMA degree, nor a Masters. And while a name music school will be a great experience, musically, if you are going after, (and I’ll emphasize the after part) the kind of knowledge an advanced degree carries (oh, battered mind of mine—hard to explain: if you seek the degree, go to a big-name school. If you seek knowledge, pick out people that teach.)

My Master’s degree is pretty worthless, as bits of paper go, but I was able to pick the brains of professors in music, electrical engineering, acoustics, and Eastern Studies in the order I wanted to. Pretty cool! I also learned that librarians live for giving us the information we want. The result is this unique Vulgano brain that occasionally comes up with ideas that effect and influence people, and a body trained to make sounds with a brass instrument. I didn’t come out of a machine, but an institution of “higher learning” that muddles along the best it can.

In the end, Dubba, you will have to make the choice between the career and the path. Badly stated, I guess, but my vote is for picking schools based on real people, not on reputations.

It will prove to be a long, strange road, but, it will end in a long strange trip. Pretty fun, too!

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