ecarroll

. . . if you really love the music."
-- Serge Koussevitsky

YouTube - Turangalîla-Symphonie - The Premiere

YouTube - Esa-Pekka Salonen discusses Messiaen

This is the only piece that I've played with Esa-Pekka. He really knows it and I agree with the many who call Turangalîla one of the Himalaya of western music. I hope that everyone understands how important Koussevitsky and his BSO were to contemporary music in the 20th century. The first video is very revealing on that score.

Mahler bridged the 19th and 20th centuries. Composers such as Olivier Messiaen and Henri Duttileux carried on the tradition. Do you know their work?

Best,
EC

mahaberio

Ed,

Great videos! The Turangalîla-Symphonie is one of my favorite orchestral works. Koussevitzky's plea still rings true today and I think it segued very well into Salonen's introduction. His musical expectations were built almost completely on the Romantic (and pre-Romantic) tradition, but his ears were open enough to let Messiaen's music captivate him. A lesson to the rest of us?

-Matthew

ecarroll

Matthew,

Exactly the point that I hoped would come through.

Bedankt,
EC

Bloomin Untidy Musician

EC, I am probably absolutely wrong and stupid to argue with a man of your experience and intellect, but i do enjoy a good argument.

I absolutely love Messiaen's music but i am unsure if he continued the Mahlerian tradition. I think his music owes more to the 2nd Viennese school and impressionism. Would this school not relate more to Wagner "tristan chord and all that b******* " than Mahler? Messiaen was a composer with Synasthesia, who was obsessed with colour and structure. Certainly the Turanglila is a wonderfully Romantic, luscious, and colourful music, but for me it resonates more with early Schoenberg e.g.Verklärte Nacht one of my favourite pieces of music!

By the way i loved the videos. Sorry for being a pain in the Bloomin Untidy Musician and "nit picking."

ecarroll

B.U.M.,

I'm not arguing that Messiaen's music is Mahlerian in any fashion, other than the size and scope of his compositions. Mahler was a unique man in a unique time and able to look back at Schubert lieder and Beethoven structure while looking ahead to the 20th century, both harmonically and via his orchestration (off-stage bands, boy's choir, klezmer music, the hammer of doom -- the ridiculous often juxtaposed next to the sublime: Mahler's "signature", to my ear).

Mahler was a forward looker who occasionally and nostalgically looked back. Messiaen looked forward with each step of the way. I cherish the music of the former and celebrate the latter.

Best,
EC

ecarroll

Well. . . I'll give you experience. :)

Cheers, mate
EC

ecarroll

TMers,

Sandy sent this tonight via e-mail (bowing in her virtual direction) and I thought that it was relevant to this discussion. :)

Enjoy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhHAojVyeG0
EC

ckallmyer

Considering Ed's video, and the discussion:

Without progress, redefinition, and the stretching the edges where would be be? It started at thirds and I think it probably never ends.

Brining in a bit of the "Orchestral metamorphosis" thread, I'd like to make a mention of the modern orchestra and the relationship to the modern composer

I was reading an article in the New Yorker last week about composer John Luther Adams. He is a CalArts alum, lives in Fairbanks Alaska, and is considered "one of the most original musical thinkers of the new century" (Alex Ross, New Yorker). He is one of those people stretching the edges of art in today's society. BUT hear what he has to say about the orchestra, and what Alex Ross has to say about John Luther Adams.

Here is the article:
Letter from Alaska: Song of the Earth: Reporting & Essays: The New Yorker

There were a few things that were said that perked my attention there.
1. Concerning the tiff of Mahler to Messiaen and presumably Messiaen to folks like Adams: "Adams’s major works have the appearance of being beyond style; they transcend the squabbles of contemporary classical music, the unending arguments over the relative value of Romantic and modernist languages."

2. "Although Adams is content to write for electronics, small ensembles, and percussion groups, he still longs to write for larger forces, and, above all, for orchestra."

3. “I thought, This couldn’t be repeated,” Adams told me. “Wagner kind of caught the perfect wave. But I did wonder what kind of opportunities exist for us, right now.” He sat still for a moment, his blue-gray eyes drifting. I sensed some wordless, high-tech, back-to-the-earth “Parsifal” waiting to be born.

I love that third excerpt. It makes me excited.

Here is one of the most radical composers out there (he takes more influence from visual art than classical music), but he still thinks that the orchestra is a vehicle for incredible expression--beyond other ensembles.

cool

-chris

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MJ

Thanks for the videos!

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wiseone2

The Brooklyn Philharmonic performed sections of Messiaen's "St.Francis of Assisi." It is a gigantic work. I would love to play the entire opera. Messiaen wrote a nice D trumpet part in this work.
Wilmer

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