Trum Peter

Hey Ed,
I’ve really been enjoying your new site. I’ve especially been enjoying the sound clips. The clips I am most drawn to are those with you and the New York Trumpet Ensemble. Like you say in the captions of some of the photos, a serious band. My question is how did this great ensemble come about? I know they are still active but have changed their focus somewhat. Are there any recordings available commercially with you and the ensemble? I am interested in possibly starting an ensemble similar to this one, did you use arrangements already available or did you write your own? Any background/advice you could give on starting such a group would be very helpful.
Thanks,
Peter Adam

ecarroll

Peter,

Thanks for your kind comments.

Gerry Schwarz gave me the keys to the trumpet ensemble when he switched from playing to conducting. We made a bunch of recordings, toured a bit (Melvin Kaplan Inc. was our manager) and had great fun, particularly when Dave Bilger, Jeff Curnow, and Scott Thornburg were in the band. I sold the rights to Mark Gould after moving to Europe in the late 80s.

Upon deciding that there was little to nothing found in the King catalogue to play (duh), most everything that we performed back in those days was in our own transcription or played directly from the score. Mark continued this path, transcribing 20's jazz (Trumpets in Stride), and the band, in its current configuration, only freely improvises during the rare times that they get together.

Best,
EC

ecarroll

Peter,

...further thoughts about starting an ensemble of this sort (or in any other configuration).

If the music is compelling enough it's possible to get dates. The issue that one must face is sustainability. Can you construct a second and third program that are equally compelling? Will audiences, thus concert presenters, clamor to hear more? Will you send them home as happy after program #2?

If you're a string 4tet or piano 3o, the obvious answer is yes. The repertoire of true art music for these configurations is almost endless. New music ensembles have to unearth new repertoire and sell the idea to the public that they need to hear it. Some bands, such as Mnozil and the Canadians, have gone the comedy/Las Vegas showband route with great success as they were the first ones in with their particular programming (Mnozil is as much an a cappella group as a brass ensemble, to marvelous effect).

Those that have created ensembles and enjoyed success with them over a period of time have my greatest respect and imitators end up failing, as they do in all facets of life, musical or commercial. It's not an easy thing to do.

Best,
EC

Bb464987

Hi Ed,

Can you go into further detail about how you would select music and the various methods you would use for performing music not originally written for the NYTE's (or any chamber music group's) instrumentation? I am particularly interested in your comment of playing directly from the score. Lastly, when you mention transcriptions, were they done by members of NYTE, or were there people you would use to create good arrangements for the ensemble?

I have been interested in starting a chamber music group that differed in instrumentation than the traditional 5tet (my thoughts have been a 4tet consisting of tpt, hn, tb, tu) and am not sure where or how to begin getting a repertoire to perform. I have not been able to find any works that use this instrumentation and have hit a wall.

Any thoughts you could give would be great.

Thanks....D

ecarroll

D,

I'd be delighted to share me thoughts on this subject. Please tell me who you are first? I'm happy to give you all I can on this subject but it helps to know who I'm talking to :)

Welcome to TM, by the way.

Best and looking forward,
EC

ecarroll

D,

I just noticed the e-mail sent to my website. Thanks for your question and good to "see" you again.

In my opinion, repertoire defines the ensemble. If you're forming a string 4tet, your choices are almost without limit and an audience will show up to hear these pieces. Another option is to form a group around a particular work -- Messiaen's "Quartet for the End of Time" comes instantly to mind, as does Schoenberg's "Pierrot Luniere" -- and fill things out with commissions and transcriptions (if necessary). Sadly, as brass players, we have little to none of that stuff. Our traditions were born on the street and in the beer halls, not the concert stage.

You and, in the past, I have to make different choices as our carts (instrumentation) have been placed in front of our horses (repertoire), limiting our choices to commissions (time consuming and sometimes disappointing -- there are obvious exceptions) and transcription.

Let me be very clear with my feelings on the latter: transcribed music rarely, if ever, equals the magic and intent of the original. That said, if we want to move on with these problematic groups we have two choices: to buy or rent somebody else's take on particular works or to do it ourselves. The NYTE chose the latter, mostly reading directly from the original score (you play this, I'll play that) as we trusted our own musicianship over that of strangers. Also, please keep in mind that the vast majority of transcriptions that are commercially available are usually watered down to match the abilities of those buying them. Naturally, there are a few exceptions -- trombonists Eric Crees and Ralph Sauer have created wonderful, and very difficult, settings of works by Bernstein, Copland, Holst, and other composers -- but you'll have to decide if they equal the original.

Best and watching the doors now opened with interest,
EC

Trum Peter

Ed,
Thanks for your original replies and thanks to D for reopening the thread. Ed, in regards to your original reply, it strikes me that you only listed Mnozil and the Canadians. In my mind this "Comedy/Las Vegas" type group is the only way to truly make an impact on today's music scene, whereas bands like The Meridian Arts Ensemble and ABQ who are (I feel) truly committed to presenting music at the highest level, are not well known outside of the brass world, even among serious classical music fans. This is not to say that Mnozil/Canadian are not committed to a high level, in fact I often find myself amazed that they are able to achieve what they do, while simultaneously dancing/running/etc. around the stage. My question I guess is it possible to do it outside these current restrictions?
Peter

ecarroll

Peter,

I admire tremendously both the ABQ and the Meridians, the former for the sheer number of pieces that they've contributed to the canon and the latter for experimenting within the form. Didkovsky's "Slim in Beaten Dreamers", a Meridian commission, has become a favorite of mine and we've done it twice at CalArts, last at the Disney Hall http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XBVkGLmqNQ . Their Zappa settings started with Frank's knowledge just before he died and continued with Barking Pumpkin, I believe.

The ABQ has faced the challenge of commissioning with steely nerve, grace, and success. David Atherton (founder of the London Sinfonietta) once told me that, in his opinion, 100 commissions might yield ten pieces worth playing a second time and, if lucky, one of these may prove to be the Rite of Spring. Not a big payback, obviously, but vitally necessary if the art form is going to survive, let alone to grow.

Thanks for diving back in and keeping this topic fresh,
EC

Bb464987

Ed,

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. This has been an idea that myself and several good friends have been throwing around for some time and we always seem stuck on the same issue of where to take the group and how if it finally gets started. Peter's question also has been a concern of my friends and I, so it was great to get your ideas on that front as well.

Hopefully we get something together and we can send you a recording sometime in the future.

D

rowuk

Ed,
maybe the transcriptions would work if more players used them as an opportunity to create the atmosphere instead of running with a personal "jock" agenda.
The trumpet has many qualities if we give it a chance. Exploring viol music from Holbourne or Bachs organ music does not mean that we need to blow walls down with it. Learning about those "original" instruments can increase our own personal scope and ultimately musicianship. Testostearone is often our biggest enemy.

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