Venturion

Greetings Ed,

Manny suggested I repost this question/topic over to you. He thought you'd have much more to say about ornamentation.

At a quintet rehearsal last night we were talking about ornamentation, and we realized that we really don't have much info about what would be appropriate, tasteful, historically informed, and practical.

I've worked with a guy a few times who tosses in connecting runs and the occasional trill or mordant or two, convincingly, and it does seem to animate and energize the proceedings.

I wonder if that is all it is, just what "seems like it works", inspired in the moment.

Or, are their codified conventions? Notable references or treatises with examples?

When I listen to certain recordings, I can lift some of the techniques, but without much understanding of the rules of the game, if there be such.

Other than the approach to "ornament at will on repeating sections", I would just be faking it (as a jazzer is wont to do anyway!), simulating recordings I've heard. I'd much rather understand the principles.

Because something is possible on picc, or even any valve trumpet, does that mean it is "acceptable" to do so, when the original material was from the era of natural trumpets, when it would have been virtually impossible to connect a run between certain harmonics, or to perform certain trills (I think). I think I've heard some overly-decorated interpretations.

I know this is a technical concern much of the general listening public is not likely to care about -- modern trumpeters quasi-recreating music of 400 years ago can wiggle a finger at a cadence, and who would object? -- but one does want to breathe life into this material in a way that is not cringe-worthy to those who may really know and care about these details.

And, in orchestral practice, how much leeway would you have to augment your part? Do you need to clear it with the boss or are you on your own?

Also, when multiple trumpets are involved at the same time, is the 2nd trumpet also to ornament his part where it cadentially resolves, or in connecting certain notes?

Just trying to get a grasp on nuance, from Dixieland to descant.

Many thanks for your thoughts!

-- V.

ecarroll

V,

You've hit the nail on the head with the above comment. It's all about the nuance, the character, of each style/composer/composition. That said, you've asked for an opinion on a rather large subject. Please remember that my opinion is just that. I'm hardly the last word on the subject (and would be interested to know who thinks (s)he is)

Ahem . . .

I rarely ornamented trumpet lines in Baroque music and did so only in moments of weakness.

Shocking?. . . I think not. You've already identified my reasoning: passing notes found outside the harmonic series weaken the often symbolic effect of composition that was meant to be played on the trumpet. The trumpet was a symbol of both the church and the state (no dummy, the King). The trumpet played Gloria, not Agnus Dei. It was an instrument of celebration. Also, there are many examples of keyboard and even string music that use the harmonic series to sound “in a trumpet-like fashion" during the period. "Trumpet-like", of course, refers to sticking to notes that could be played on the trumpet within a certain key.

That said, and before any of you rush to check my many mistake-filled CDs of Baroque music (as if you’ll find them, hah!), I used to ornament the living daylights out of music not written specifically for the trumpet (flute, and violin music especially). Many of the so-called “Concerti in X flat minor” published by this person or that are actually compilations of various keyboard or soprano instrument work -- and resemble true trumpet music as much as I resemble George Clooney. Creative ornamentation was considered part and parcel of being an artist in the Renaissance and Baroque periods: the ability to extemporize, in style, on a composer’s idea. The similarity between Baroque music and jazz isn’t small in this regard, although I suspect that Gary Peacock and Keith Jarrett wouldn’t relate that well with a basso continuo group.

There are treatises to read (J.J. Quantz comes to mind) but I preferred to listen to and occasionally play with others that had mastered ornamentation to some degree. Bruce Dickey (cornettist) and Monica Hugett (violinist) pop instantly to mind and I’m sure that their many CDs can still be found. I’ll bet that other TMers will suggest favorites as well. Also, check out Telemann's Methodischen Sonaten. The composer often writes two versions of the solo line: plain and ornamented. It's a goldmine.

Watching with interest,
EC
PS: try doodling around on Renaissance tunes with a hand drummer sometime? It can't be more fun and if you perform them someplace mention me warmly in your program notes. :)

wiseone2

So.......it's the last couple measures of the "Hallelujah Chorus".......let me make it clear that I was playing SECOND trumpet to a noted soloist. The solo guy starts a run to the final chord of the chorus. The conductor, not knowing what "old super chops'" is going for, cuts the orchestra off. O.S.C. did not make it home, the tonic. He made it as far as the seventh Ever tried to laugh and play at the same time?
Wilmer

Tootsall

Is that anything like trying your darndest not to cough (and failing) and play at the same time?

Cheers.

wiseone2

While the second guy is trying to laugh and play at the same time?
Wilmer

Bikephan

David Hickman in his “The PiccoloTrumpet Big Book” has an interesting discussion on ornamentation.

Hickman gives some simple guidelines for ornamentation.

“Ornaments should suit the context.”
Or in other words take into consideration the time and place and composer of the music.

“Do no add to the line unless you can improve it”

“When to use free ornamentation:

On the repeated sections of a work, sush as the repeated “A” section of a do capo aria.
Slow movements
On long sustained notes
In works of the Italian style.

When not to use free ornamentation:

Highly contrapuntal works.
Allegro movements that already contain a lot of melodic figuration.
The initial presentation of melodies.
When a melody stands well enough on its own.”

He also makes distinctions between performance practices of each national styles of Baroque composition.

“French music shows a predilection for shorter ornaments such as trill, mordents, and turns. The use of too many specific ornaments precludes any free ornamenting of the line. Italian music, on the other hand, requires the most free ornamentation.”

He also lists several sources for the information contained in the before mentioned chapter.

Jean-Claude Veilhan, The Rules of musical Interpretation in the Baroque Era, trans. John Lambert (Paris: LeDuc, 1979).

Girolamo Fantini, Modo per imparare a sonare di tromba, (Frankfurt: D. Watsch, 1638; Facsimile reprint with English translation and critical commentary by Edward H. Tarr, Nashville: Brass Press, 1972).

Johan Joachim Quantz, On Playing the Flute, translated with notes and introduction by Edward R. Reilly (New York: Faber, 1985).

Cesare Bendinelli. The Entire Art of Trumpet Playing, trans. Edward H. Tarr. Nashville: Brass Press, 1972).

Carl Philipp Emmanuel Bach, Essay on the true art of playing the keyboard, Trans William J. Mitchell (New York: Norton, 1949).

Giuseppe Tartini, Traite des agreements de la musique, English trans. Cuthbert Girdlestone (New York: H. Mueck, 1961).

Leopold Mozart, Traite einer grundichen Violinschule, (Ausburg: Verlag, 1756)

Johann Ernst Altenburg, Trumpeters’ and Ketteldrummers’ Art, trans Edward H. Tarr (Nashville: Brass Press, 1974).


Hope this helps

Thomas

ecarroll

Thomas,

Good morning and thank you for Dave's instructions. I agree with all of them.

I do, however, suggest that most TMers should follow a course of extended listening rather than simply adhering to the do's and don'ts found in these treatises.

Musicians today have such an advantage over their counterparts of a generation ago. The 70's and 80's brought an explosion of early music repertoire to the microphones; much of it obscure and most of it previously unrecorded. The world became well acquainted with the previously unknown artistry of English, Dutch, German, French Italian, and Scandinavian musicians that had devoted their performing lives to interpretating early music.

Lucky us. Every time we slip in a disc and put on the phones it's like attending a masterclass (if we're truly listening) and I've always firmly believed that a musician's ears -- not eyes -- are his/her greatest asset.

Best and watching here with interest,
EC

Venturion

Wow, gentlemen, already these responses are highly thought-provoking, packed with direction for further research, and capped with a real-life comical/horrifying musical anecdote (a lesson in disguise!). Thank you all!

And Ed, I also appreciate the reinforcement of the "aural tradition" of close listening and learning from example. In addition to Bruce Dickey and Monica Hugett, are there any trumpet specialists whose ornamental work is widely acknowledged as being markedly superior?

I gather Ed Tarr has a big reputation, but I don't see any/many CDs of his in the local mall bookstores. Maurice Andre I love, he doesn't seem to get too wild. The trick is to know who are the best models to emulate, then.

It seems the only way to determine what is ornamented and what is written is to have the score/part in front of you while listening to the recording.

To minimize a huge deficit in one's bank account by buying recordings widely and wildly, can anyone recommend a few specific artist's recordings matched with readily available printed editions that show examples of superior ornamentation?

Again, gentlemen, thank you for your expert views and anecdotes. This is becoming a most instructive "crash course" on this topic.

Onward and upward! (to that dangling C#, eh?)

-- V.

ecarroll

V,

Perhaps Matthias Höfs from German Brass. He's wonderfully fluid in his ornamentation (I heard a wonderful recital of Italian music for *trumpet* and basso continuo at the Bremen Trumpet Academy some years back) and his work is certainly readily available as German Brass plays mostly transcriptions, thus very little actual trumpet music.

I've long been an advocate of looking behind the artist, however. Who did Matthias listen to? Certainly not any of the trumpeters. Bruce and Monica will be a good start for you.

Best,
EC

rowuk

I gather Ed Tarr has a big reputation, but I don't see any/many CDs of his in the local mall bookstores. Maurice Andre I love, he doesn't seem to get too wild. The trick is to know who are the best models to emulate, then.

Ed Tarrs publications are worth having!

can anyone recommend a few specific artist's recordings matched with readily available printed editions that show examples of superior ornamentation?

Niklas Eklund is my #1 example for state of the art period trumpet playing. he accomplishes things on the natural trumpet that many of us couldn't do on the piccolo!