trumpetmike

The recent discussion of the Concerto in D, St Marc, along with a couple of my current pieces to work on have led me to this thought - when we are playing transcriptions of music for other solo instruments (be it violin, flute, oboe, or whatever), should we be approaching these pieces as trumpets, or does the instrument it was originally conceived for suggest the "correct" way to interpret these pieces?
I have been looking at the Marcello oboe concerto (along with some other oboe works) - one that is very popular with trumpeters. I have heard many trumpeters play it and there seems to be a general agreement about the tempi. I recently heard a recording of an oboe player playing the same piece and was very surprised to hear the tempi being quite different from what I have got to know as a trumpeter. I tried the piece at "oboe" speed and found that it became a very different piece - less "flash" (for want of a better word) and more beautiful, allowing for longer musical lines.
So, my thought process is now - which should I pursue? If I am a trumpeter and there is an established way of trumpeters playing a piece, should that then be the "correct" one for future trumpeters to follow?

I am seriously considering taking a lesson on a couple of these pieces from a local oboe teacher, just to get a fresh view on how I am playing them.

trumpetnick

Different tempi allows different approach, of course. Which one is better? TMike, we had a similar discussion (on Brass Forum if I remember well) about the Hummel 3rd mvt...I think that both approaches can be legitimate as far as you can find a good reason to do what you want. If you go to an audition, or want to impress your public with your technical skills, then you can choose the fast "flashy" tempi. If you want a better phrasing sometimes playing slower may be useful. Either Hummel or Vivaldu have not put metronome markings so you can be quite free on the choice of the tempo, as far as it does not get extremely fast or slow. Getting a lesson from an oboist can be interesting...Few years ago I took a lesson with Rod Franks. I plyed the IInd Sinfonia Il Barcheggio by Stradella where he asked me to play thrills slower because this was supposedly difficult to do on the nat. But now I got the Nuklus Ekland recording on nat and he is playing quite fast thrills. Is this making slow thrills illegitimate? Not sure. They still sound nice to me. But so are the fast ones. Fast thrills sound more french to me (tremblement du voix was one of the caracteristic embelishments of the french renaissance). Someone can argue that I can play properly fast thrills that why I prefer the slow ones. Someone caan think that you take a slower tempo because you cannot do like Maurice Andre...even if it is th true who cares? As far as you do something beatiful and people and you enjoy it, it can be legitimate. You won't compete with Andre's recordings, right? His interpretationswere not perfect, but playing was in a very high level. There is no point in trying to play faster (or at least as fast as) Andre, or Marsalis or whoever! Myself I try to follow one rule: never allow a technical challenge to detemine my interpretation. I won't start play faster a piece just because there is long phrases which are difficult to stand...or playing slower because I have problems with getting the notes or the tonguing. I do look around what other people do, but ultimately I take my own decision, based on my knowledge and artistic perception. What would be the music world like if everone played at precisely the same speed, same articulation and tone qualities?

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ecarroll

Mike,

I think that there's a simple answer to your question: we play the music, not "imitate" the instrument. Tempi are determined by the fluidity of your own technique and moderated, sometimes, by acoustic. Articulations are determined by what sounds right musically (length of phrase and no stress on passing notes, etc.).

Taking lessons from non trumpeters is always a good idea. My primary teacher one summer at Aspen was Ray Still, the principal oboist of the Chicago Symphony and one of my most memorable lessons ever was with the great French flutist Marcel Moyse.

By the way, I like the Marcello Concerto.



Best,
EC

gzent

Well, I'm sure as h3ll not going to play like a saxophone....

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Khora

Well, if every trumpet player jumps off a cliff, will you follow them?

Seriously, though, I think you have to decide what it is you want to say/convey with the piece. Music isn't about repeating what everyone else is saying (okay, well maybe it is, but I don't think it should be!) It is about expressing your own thoughts/feelings.

So you have to decide what the piece is about for you - flash? beauty? Why you are playing/ who you are playing for - yourself? other trumpet players? the sheer joy of making music?

Once you answer those questions, how you "should" play the piece will fall easily into place. Then you just have to figure out how to make it work from the physical standpoint. Sometimes we have to compromise - if our technique can't support our intentions at a given moment - but if we don't know what we are trying to express, we won't express anything at all.

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TrentAustin

My favorite musician is Coltrane. I want to emulate everything in his playing (most notably his full sound and impeccable time) So I guess it's okay to sound like a saxophone. Just no Glazunov (sp?).

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tpter1

Does that mean he has to have the same awkward-looking embouchre, too?

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Derek Reaban

Trumpetmike,

The last time that I played a Marcello piece (although not the concerto), Doc Severinsen complimented me on my playing!

I think that you should certainly consider listening to the instrument that a piece of music was originally conceived for to understand the phrasing better. Sir George Solti asked Mr. Herseth to approach the beginning of Pictures as it would be played on the piano (and demonstrated the sound of the decay that he was interested in hearing).

In the Pergolesi piece Se Tu M’ami, the accents based on the Italian text helps to make it sound like you are singing it:

Se tu m’ami, se tu sospiri
Sol per me, gentil pastor,
Ho dolor dei tuoi martiri,
Ho diletto del tuo amor,
Ma se pensi che soletto
Io ti debba riamar,
Especially here: Pastorello, sei soggetto
Facilmente a t’ingannar

Those are two very specific examples that I can point to in my experience. Hope this helps!

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Jimi Michiel

trumpetmike-

I think there are a couple of different issues here. Tempo and phrasing are musical/interpretive elements. I don't know the Marcello, but I would imagine that there are several different ways that oboists play it (although they might seem incredibly subtle to those not intimately familiar with the work).

Sound is a whole different animal. There's a lot you cn do to change your sound to be more like an oboist: vibrato, timbre, equiptment, mouthpiece, etc.

I would ask myself how I will best serve the composer and his music. Is the piece very oboe-ish (idiomatic to the oboe)? If the piece seems to be just music written for the oboe, just be yourself. If the peice is more "oboe music" than "music for oboe" then take a longer look at what you can do to get inside the oboe.

Case in point: Both the Bach Cello Suites and Tchaikovsky's Rococo Variations have been transcribed and performed on trumpet. I think of the Bach Suites as incredibly cello-istic. There are motions and gestures in the music that are just so idiomatic to the cello that any other instrument is going to have to emulate the cello when doing those gestures (an example that comes to mind are the low grace notes before the last note in the prelude of the first suite). On the other hand, the Tchaik is beautiful music, but when I listen to Nakariokav's recording of it, I don't really think of the cello, or even flugelhorn for that matter, just a beautiful line (and later incredible technique!).

Just a few thoughts.

-Jimi

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