Bloomin Untidy Musician

Hi EC,

Hope all is going well with you. As i haven't popped by EC downloading in a while, i thought that i would pop by and say hello.

I am probably asking a stupid question for which i will get slated, but stuff it, i am going to get it off my laden 36DD chest.

I noticed from your very suave website that you conducted a wonderful brass band local to me, namely Desford Colliery Band. Something that i often wonder is that considering the huge brass band heritage in England, why do we not produce more world class virtuosos like Wynton Marsalis, Allen Vizutti, Malcolm McNabb etc. Yes England has some superb trumpet players like Maurice Murphy, John Wallis, and Derek Watson, but what does the American teaching/environment do to be able to produce such groundbreaking, enigmatic trumpet players? What is missing within the British system to produce these type of players?


Slancha


B.U.M.

ecarroll

B.U.M.,

First things first. Coffee goes with many things but not a crumpet. Some traditions are worth defending, after all is said and done :)

The UK has contributed much to the world of brass playing. In addition to John Wallace, Jimmy Watson, Morris Murphy, and Derek Watson, I'd nominate Dennis Brain, Kenny Wheeler, Phillip Jones, John Fletcher, Crispian Steele-Perkins, and others such as Alison Balsom (who took the photo of a bunch of us at a hotel bar seen on my website) (no wonder most of us are smiling), Mark O'Keeffe, and a raft-full more going back to Ernest Williams, Valentine Snow, and John Grauner.

What are the differences between brass education in the US and the UK? Perhaps upholding UK tradition (particularly in the brass band world) whereas we have little of that here. There was no American baroque. There was little American music born during the classical period. Jazz and a few generations of composer/performers has been our greatest contribution to the art form. Perhaps they are greater risk-takers both musicially and professionally since they are making it up as they go?

Just for fun, try creating a list here of trumpeters that you feel are truly great, and then put a star next to ones that are true groundbreakers (Maurice on the piccolo trumpet, for example) or composer/performers. I think you'll be surprised by the result.

Cheers, mate, and welcome back into the fold.
EC

Bloomin Untidy Musician

Malcolm McNabb *
Bud Herseth
Maurice Andre *
Allen Vizutti
Clark Terry*
Miles Davis*
Wynton Marsalis*
Sergei Nakariakov (sorry probably spelled it wrong)*
Crispian Steele Perkins*
Cat Anderson
Mendez*
Maurice Murphy
Maynard Ferguson
Hakan Hardenberger*
Marcus Stockhausen*
Arturo Sandoval*
Louis Armstrong*

Actually, i see what you mean about risk taking Jazz players. Many Jazz players i suppose take risks to expand the expressive Jazz pallette in a quest for individuality and progression. I also suppose that you have trumpet players that play music in the plural, and those that are disciples of a specific artistic vision.
I suppose when you look at my list you realise how unique a musician Wynton Marsalis is. He can do everything superbly! He is truly unique in his position within the history of the trumpet. Maybe England needs more Jazz!

Thanks EC

BUM

ecarroll

BUM,

I'd add a star to Al Vizzutti's name. He's certainly a composer/performer. I might question Malcolm McNabb, a great trumpeter and musician but I'm unsure where he stands as a groundbreaker. Also, check out Kenny Wheeler and Gerard Presencer. There's jazz in England, my friend.

Anyone else want to take a crack at making a list? All contribute mine, eventually.

Best,
EC

bill benzon

I'd add Dizzy Gillespie, Roy Eldridge, Lester Bowie and Don Cherry to the list.

ecarroll

Bill,

So would I. Make a new list of "ground-breaking" trumpeters though. I'm interested in who each of our fellow TMers pay attention to, and how aware they are regarding the plowing of new ground.

Best,
EC

ps: please note that this shouldn't turn into one of those "who's the best?" threads. I'm totally uninterested in this and hope that those who participate in my forum are as well. BUM's original post is about cultural influences. Every name we list deserves equal respect. I'm simply curious as to how thoughtful we are concerning their contributions in advancing music as art.

bagmangood

Clifford Brown*

__________________
Bb: Courtois 305 "Elite"
C: Bach C180-239 (Akwright conversion),
Cornet: Conn Wonder (1900)
Picc: Selmer Paris, ~1971

bill benzon

My list of jazz trumpeters (all starred):

Louis Armstrong
Roy Eldridge
Dizzy Gillespie
Miles Davis
Clifford Brown
Clark Terry
Freddie Hubbard
Lee Morgan
Don Cherry
Lester Bowie
Hugh Masekela

Add Hannibal (Marvin Peterson) to the list, though as much for his composing as his trumpeting.

A note about Masekela: I've found his recordings classified as jazz, world music, and pop. He's got his own stye. As an improvising trumpeter, he does things with rhythm and repetition I've not heard from anyone else.

Khora

Not that I have much to offer, but my list of ground-breakers would definitely include:

Maurice Andre
Hakan Hardenberger
Markus Stockhausen
Mark Gould
Amy Horvey
Ralph Alessi
Gabrieli Cassone
Daniel Rosenboom
Dave Douglas

Just a start, to be sure....

__________________
Sandy

"Conventional Wisdom" should not be applied to unconventional thinking.

ecarroll

Sandy,

I'm with you on all but one. Gabriele Cassone is one of my best friends, as you know, and perhaps the strongest pure trumpeter I've ever heard (yes, Vizzutti fans, that good). I'm not sure, however, that I consider him to be a breaker of new ground. A refiner to the Nth degree, yes.

There will be many gray areas before we close this thread. "Did (s)he add a new dimension to our art? Well, for me (s)he did because I heard things differently after hearing her/him." I respect this position to the bottom of my soul, but I can't argue that someone like Bud Herseth (an occasional former teacher, mind you) added new dimensions to our art. I believe without question that he refined, and thus defined, them however. Am I being characteristically unclear?

Best and keep 'em coming, TMers. Those who have posted are welcome to add/subtract along the way as well.

Best,
EC