Strunk on Conciseness

Vulgano Brother · 02-24-2009, 08:36 PM

"Omit needless words. Vigorous writing is concise. A sentence should contain no unnecessary words, a paragraph no unnecessary sentences, for the same reason that a drawing should have no unnecessary lines and a machine no unnecessary parts."

—Strunk W., White E.B. The Elements of Style. Third Edition. MacMillan Publishing Company: New York, 1979. p. 23. ISBN: 0-02-418200-1.

I love this quote from Strunk, and ponder over whether being "concise" applies to us as players? does it apply to composers?

Is there a way to be simply expressive when playing?

What are your thoughts?

veery715 · 02-24-2009, 09:09 PM

I think Monk was a Strunk & White composer/performer.
veery

ecarroll · 02-24-2009, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vulgano Brother

I love this quote from Strunk, and ponder over whether being "concise" applies to us as players? does it apply to composers?

VB,

As interpreters or as composer/performers (improvisers)?

My gut instinct is to say n/a as interpreters (wouldn't that be pure, "play-the-ink", neo-classicism?) and, interestingly, I hope not regarding the rest. To my eye, concise in writing means journalism. To my ear, the more musical complexity and layers of listening the better. I suppose this is why I've always prefered Shakespeare to Hemingway, Stockhausen to Hindemith, and Coltrane to Miles.

I'm not into dinner theater either, but then I'm just me.

Best,
EC

Khora · 02-25-2009, 12:29 AM

EC -

I'm not so sure. To me, concise in writing means well-thought through; enough to know what is extraneous and redundant, and what really expresses the point. Strunk & White are fundamentally addressing the writing of research papers of course, so it might be a bit of a stretch to compare it to composing. But I really think the best writing can be both complex and concise;

But I'm way too tired to be making any intelligible comments - just wanted to say it is something to consider in some situations....

Schwab · 02-25-2009, 01:43 PM

I think it does apply to us as players. I hear some guys who are doing all kinds of crazy things thinking that they are being super musical, and it just ends up sounding unnatural.

I think the best players sound like they are simply singing through the horn.

Sterling · 02-25-2009, 01:50 PM

How does this apply to minimalist composers such as Phillip Glass and Steve Reich? They use a lot of repeated notes, but concise?

wiseone2 · 02-25-2009, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sterling

How does this apply to minimalist composers such as Phillip Glass and Steve Reich? They use a lot of repeated notes, but concise?

Listen to these examples of the so-called minimalist. I think their music speaks volumes.

YouTube - Steve Reich's The Desert Music -...

YouTube - Adams: Short Ride in a Fast Machine...

Wilmer

Sterling · 02-25-2009, 03:32 PM

wiseone2, I agree totally. I was just posing the thought that many notes might be necessary in particular genres of music. I am a fan on Phillip Glass and other minimalists. I think that they are more fun to listen to than play.

wiseone2 · 02-25-2009, 04:08 PM

Well...............I played "The Desert Music" recording with the Brooklyn Philharmonic and loved playing it. MTT can be fun to work with

The Short Ride allows for the lead player in you to surface on the concert hall stage

Wilmer

ecarroll · 02-25-2009, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schwab

I hear some guys who are doing all kinds of crazy things thinking that they are being super musical, and it just ends up sounding unnatural.

Dylan,

I know exactly what you're talking about but I call the "crazy things" you refer to as simply being musically illiterate.

The reason we take time and effort to seriously study music is to understand the subtle differences between languages so our playing doesn't fall into esperanto.

...or igpay atinlay :)

Oink,
EC

02-24-2009, 08:36 PM	#1
Vulgano Brother Moderator Fortissimo User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 4,253	Strunk on Conciseness "Omit needless words. Vigorous writing is concise. A sentence should contain no unnecessary words, a paragraph no unnecessary sentences, for the same reason that a drawing should have no unnecessary lines and a machine no unnecessary parts." —Strunk W., White E.B. The Elements of Style. Third Edition. MacMillan Publishing Company: New York, 1979. p. 23. ISBN: 0-02-418200-1. I love this quote from Strunk, and ponder over whether being "concise" applies to us as players? does it apply to composers? Is there a way to be simply expressive when playing? What are your thoughts? __________________ "A tool good enough to be so used and not too good" C.S. Lewis That Hideous Strength www.letsbuildhope.org

02-24-2009, 09:09 PM	#2
veery715 Forte User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ithaca NY Posts: 1,433	Re: Strunk on Conciseness I think Monk was a Strunk & White composer/performer. veery

02-25-2009, 12:29 AM	#4
Khora Pianissimo User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New York Posts: 194	Re: Strunk on Conciseness EC - I'm not so sure. To me, concise in writing means well-thought through; enough to know what is extraneous and redundant, and what really expresses the point. Strunk & White are fundamentally addressing the writing of research papers of course, so it might be a bit of a stretch to compare it to composing. But I really think the best writing can be both complex and concise; But I'm way too tired to be making any intelligible comments - just wanted to say it is something to consider in some situations.... __________________ Sandy "Conventional Wisdom" should not be applied to unconventional thinking.

02-25-2009, 01:43 PM	#5
Schwab Moderator Forte User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NYC Posts: 1,690	Re: Strunk on Conciseness I think it does apply to us as players. I hear some guys who are doing all kinds of crazy things thinking that they are being super musical, and it just ends up sounding unnatural. I think the best players sound like they are simply singing through the horn. __________________ Dylan Schwab Stage 1 New York

02-25-2009, 01:50 PM	#6
Sterling Piano User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Marcellus, NY Posts: 260	Re: Strunk on Conciseness How does this apply to minimalist composers such as Phillip Glass and Steve Reich? They use a lot of repeated notes, but concise?

02-25-2009, 03:32 PM	#8
Sterling Piano User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Marcellus, NY Posts: 260	Re: Strunk on Conciseness wiseone2, I agree totally. I was just posing the thought that many notes might be necessary in particular genres of music. I am a fan on Phillip Glass and other minimalists. I think that they are more fun to listen to than play.

02-25-2009, 04:08 PM	#9
wiseone2 Artitst in Residence Fortissimo User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Brooklyn,NY Posts: 2,870	Re: Strunk on Conciseness Well...............I played "The Desert Music" recording with the Brooklyn Philharmonic and loved playing it. MTT can be fun to work with The Short Ride allows for the lead player in you to surface on the concert hall stage Wilmer __________________ Be sure Brain is engaged before putting Mouthpiece in gear. S.Suark 1951

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