Firestas'1

I hope you might be able to clarify a few things about transposition for me.

First, I have Gerald Webster's Method for Piccolo Trumpet, in the book there are pieces marked "in Do using A piccolo", "To be played on A piccolo in Re", To be played on Bb piccolo in Do".
What does all that mean?

Second, if a piece is written in F (1 flat) but the piece is labeled "trumpet in A" what would the transposition be to play it on a Bb?

I'm sorry if this seems rudimentary, but I have had very little instruction on this over the years, my confusion seems to be increasing as the years pass.

Thank you for your time.

__________________


Stan J.

What is to reach the heart must come from above. If it does not, it will be nothing but notes, body without spirit.
--Ludwig van Beethoven

Music is God's best gift to man. The only art of heaven given to earth, the only art of earth we take to heaven.
--Letitia Elizabeth Landon

ecarroll

Stan,

Simply, if the original work calls for trumpet in Re (D), and your piccolo trumpet is set-up to play in A, you end up playing the piece in F (a great key with easy trills). Trumpet in Do (C) is more problematic as you end up playing it in Eb.

Does this make sense to you?

Best,
EC

Vulgano Brother

I studied under Gerald Webster, and he loved to play with our heads! His use of "Do" "Re," et al. was to get us into the key of the piece. When transposing baroque music, naming the notes can be difficult -- is it the sounding, fingered, or written note? He taught us to refer to the concert pitch when playing barogue music, so a written c for Tromba in Re would be refered to as a d in lessons and rehearsals.

The advantage of thinking in terms of concert pitch comes in handy on piccolo escpecially with octave transpositions. We sometimes will think what we finger, so that when we play a c for Tromba in Do on Bb piccolo with 13, we'll tend to blow like for a low d on the Bb. Jumping up a fifth can get us thinking a in the staff, and this can prove deadly.

Knowing where we "really are" helps.

He advised us to play most things written for natural trumpet in C on the A side for sound and intonation purposes. The transposition is easy, reading in bass clef and adding three sharps.

The A transposition is usually found esclusively in music written for chromatic valved instruments. If a piece is written in F (1 flat) but the piece is labeled "trumpet in A" we would think "a melody in E" and transpose by something akin to the Nasvhille Number System -- "this note is the second note of the written scale, the second note of E is an F#...." Hard to explain, but easy to do if we've practiced our scales enough.

Hope this shed a bit of light on Webster's method.

Yqf3 r7h!
("Have Fun!" for Qwerty Keyboard in Re)

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ecarroll

Many thanks, Brother V

EC

mattdalton

Wouldn't that be adding three flats? (Or taking away three sharps?)

Sometimes I think Webster is still messing with our heads...you can just blame it on that!

__________________
Matt Dalton

trumpetmike

I used to think I understood transposition - thanks Vulgano Brother - I am now truly confused

I guess this is one of those things that of you have always done something one way, understanding another methodology is something that will require some real thought.

A fascinating post and one that is making me think about just how I transpose, especially on the piccolo.

The one transposition on piccolo that still has a habit of confusing me (especially when being done when not entirely awake) is when they are writing a D trumpet part for C trumpet (with key signature of D major). I know how to do it, but there is a huge part of my brain that is insisting "this is a D part, read down a 5th." I know it is wrong, but it still happens.
Either that or I start thinking "you are reading a C part, you will be playing in Eb major" - equally wrong and frustrating.

As for actual C parts - can't beat a G piccolo (after all, who doesn't like F major? )

trumpetnick

TMike don't you like better C major? Get a piccolo in high C! There is no many of these that I have seen... Thein Brass or ...spada of course http://www.spadamusic.ch/seiten/111.htm# there may be others that I am not aware of...How about F piccolo trumpet? For some reason, I have always prefer G major....I remember having to play some bach cantata in C (cannot remember the reference number), and my teacher at the time (Jean-Francois Michel) gave me this horn G/F Trumpet, Model 365GF/S- Henri Selmer Paris with the f set and worked quite well for me.

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1956 Olds Ambassador Cornet
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If you don't know where you are going, you 'll end up someplace else

ecarroll

Mike,

Back in the day that I made a bit of a career playing Baroque music I performed 80% of the time on my Schilke, and later a Yamaha, G trumpet (never liked the F side very much). In addition to normal piccolo clarity, these trumpets had a bit more weight in the sound and F (Do) and G (Re) were certainly the best keys to play in.

Best,
EC

Manny Laureano

What Vacchiano taught was this:

Get a C trumpet part with the key signature of D major (2#'s)

Get a piccolo and set it to A.

If you have that combination you pretend the part is in bass clef. So, written D becomes F, E becomes G and so on. Here's the important part: add three flats to the key signature and do some math. Three flats plus two sharps equals...? Right, one flat (F major)

So, a C part with a piccolo in A means read bass clef and add three flats.

ML

Vulgano Brother

Wow -- that's why I keep having to pull my slide way, way, waaay out! Three flats it is! Thanks!

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