someguy6

Hi:

I've recently purchased a BERP and have been working through some of the exercises. I have a fairly general question.

Is the buzz frequency going into the mouthpiece the same frequency as the note coming out of the horn? Or are there "buzz settings" (presumably the no-valves pressed tones) that are buzzed into the mouthpiece and the valves used to lengthen the tubing to lower the pitch?

The exercises provided with the BERP imply the former, but I have studied with teachers that imply the later (Adams method teachers). Maybe it's a combination.

I guess what this question is leading up to is whether or not learning to buzz specific pitches on a mouthpiece (not attached to a horn) can be used to improve intonation.

I'm not currently studying with anyone so feel free to give me your position without fear of contradicting a current teacher.

thanks
rob

ecarroll

Hi Rob,

Physics and I aren't on speaking terms these days but when I buzz a middle G and slowly insert the mouthpiece into the horn I play the same note. Jim Thompson's exercises mirror buzzing and playing. I'd go with the former.

Are there any Adam students out there who wish to comment?

Best,
EC

rowuk

When you add the horn, several things happen:
1) the additional length of tubing has a physical resonant frequency and that is the "tone" that will come out the easiest. The vibration creates a standing wave that influences the lip vibration and tries to "force" the lips to vibrate at that frequency.
2) the resonance of the horn when played creates a "back pressure" which supports the lips. When you buzz a frequency that does not correspond to the horns length, it gives you no resonant help and very little amplification. I have heard of players successfully using this phenomenon to strengthen the corners, I have never used it or taught it myself.

Intonation is a function of your ears and I am not sure that a Berp will help. If you have developed a good sense of pitch, you can play anything in tune. If that is what you are trying to accomplish, Sofeggio, intervals and long tones with other players can increase your ear power. The Berp and proper breath training can help you train embouchure strength. All of that together gives you the resonant tone and security of pitch needed to play well.

Vulgano Brother

1. Mouthpiece buzzing sans BERP ala Stamp is wonderful for intonation.
2. In addition to Ed's buzz a g and plug the mouthpiece into the horn great exercise, we can do the same with g#, f#, etc., (without depressing valves) and force the horn to play a tone it doesn't want to.
3. Try the following: pull out your tuning slide and stick one end in the leadpipe with the other end pointing back at you (Eclipse players, good luck!) and play a tone. Now, using the valves, play down chromatically. Does the pitch change? For most players it does, even though the valves aren't connected to the pipe!

Fun stuff!

someguy6

Vulgano Bros:

I agree that number 3 probably happens, but is that a good thing or a bad thing? One of my former teachers inplied that this was inefficient playing and you should let the valves do the work. I'm not really sure about this.

trumpethack

yes, intonation is a function of your ears...which is exactly why a b.e.r.p. WILL help...

you can't rely on the horn or valves or whatever for the pitch. You have to use your ears and play the correct pitches.

Someone else said that buzzing "sans" b.e.r.p. ala stamp is good for intonation... why does adding the b.e.r.p. negate this???? The whole idea is to do stamp, etc, with a b.e.r.p. because it puts the horn in your hands so you can relate the two better.

I have never seen any negative side effects of using some sort of buzz aid in any one I have ever played with or taught... with the exception of maybe they get to "into it" and over do it...but overdoing anything is usually a bad thing, so I'm not sure that's a good argument against it...

-Hack

Adam Smith

Latley I have been doing alot of clark studies, scales, and arpeggio's on the mouthpeice while the tonic is playing on my tuner. It has really helped my ears alot.

Vulgano Brother

I said it. The reason why, is because I've never used a b.e.r.p, and therefore only have experience sans b.e.r.p. It has been my experience that added resistance usually affects the q factor, impedence, which will make some changes in where pitches will resonate. Does this happen with the b.e.r.p.? I don't know, because I never tried one. I was not trying to be disrespectful to the b.e.r.p., but rather talking about those things I have experience with.

Vulgano Brother

I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing. The lips buzz alone will start the note, until the vibrating air column starts to cause the lips to buzz the same frequency. If we telegraph the change by changing the buzz before using the valves (or in a lip slur) we'll lose some cleanness. This is why Stamp speaks to the telegraphing of note changes. Buzzing the lips, the mouthpiece and the pipe all fit together when playing the trumpet, not like a jigsaw puzzle, but more like a stew. That's why I like to observe things in playing rather than judge them. That's why I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing.

rowuk

Before we get into something that doesn't need to be:
everything that we seriously practice will help us move forward!

Intonation problems can be divided into 2 sections:
bad hearing and instrument problems. I combat bad hearing with solfeggio and other vocal techniques. Before berping, I would have my students sing. Why? Because a vocal sense of pitch AND articulation translate into trumpet intonation and articulation. The human voice is my ideal for sound, not a mouthpiece buzz. Imitating words and sentence melody are very important in my teaching! The less I have to talk in a lesson the better. The more that my students can produce and hear themselves, the faster they develop.
Instrument problems need to be dealt with as an entire system. I see no correlation here between the BERP/mouthpiece and the horn/mouthpiece other than the increased embouchure strength that might allow me to muscle a horns intonation better. I teach playing on the resonant center of each tone. That needs to be done with the horn (otherwise we don't have the resonant system that we are trying to tune).
Please do not assume because I use other methods, that I am putting down the BERP though. I use other techniques because I feel that they address a greater number of problems at the same time.
My students practice on average between 20 minutes and an hour a day. They have no time to devote to "nice to haves". With 2 or 3 hours a day or with advanced players just trying to keep the embouchure in shape we need a different program. The BERP may be most useful for this type of work.