kadleck

FYI -

Apparently, Musicians Local 802 (NYC) has joined the Chicago and Las Vegas unions in boycotting several instument makers due to the Bach/Conn/Selmer strike:

http://local802afm.org/frames/fs_art...Entry=84654621

The workers have set up a website:

www.ConnSelmerStrike.com

rowuk

Is it possible to mass produce instruments in the US anymore or are we just beating a dead horse here?
We have great conflicts of interest here. Foreign companies with subsidised production, or underpaid employees competing with US companies legally bound to "reasonable" terms.
Let us just assume that the union wins - what then? The cheap instruments from elsewhere will continue to take the market by storm because the average CONSUMER could care less. That means there will still be drastic decreases in production in the US, whether we like it or not.
A completely open world market will reduce salaries to the lowest common denominator - or to nothing if society does not become more particular about keeping AMERICANS fed. An open market is wonderful IF all sides profit. Other than selling out technology, I am not sure that we export enough to keep an economic balance with those countries killing our jobs.
Maybe our Wall Street and GNP based economy are not the right way? Maybe Zig Kanstul needs to buy Bach - he sure knows how to run a company..................

Alex Yates

Very good points Robin. Our country passed mass producing products of quality a long time ago and you're right, there is not an easy way to go back to that way of doing things. It used to be if you bought American, quality was #1. I wish we still had reasons for pride in that regard. I know this country is supposed to be some kind of poster child for "open thinking and acceptance", but I do wish we had taken care of our own in some respects and kept it up. Practically everything this country created has been made better and/or cheaper by someone else outside of the US. Just an example, the large percentage of our appliances and automobiles were made more efficient by Japanese engineers. Why didn't WE do that? For all of the complaining, we have no one to blame but ourselves for this outcome.

Alex Yates

Thanks for the links Tony. The article really makes you think and feel for those folks. (our folks)

rowuk

What America did do is export some excellent brass players throughout the world. Many of the european orchestras profited greatly from the solid technical education of american players. In return, those players have brought solid european interpretation and musicality back to the states. Everybody profited and we see international players getting a fair chance almost everywhere!!!

Tootsall

That's a good question: and (along with Getzen and Schilke); the answer... at least in the short term. The present retail price spread between Bach and the other three isn't all that great, especially considering the reputations for quality from them. In fact, I'd suggest that Bach is grossly over-priced.

Edit: in fact, when you consider all of the "custom" makers (Lawler, Caliccio, etc.) and their prices and AFTER-SALES SERVICE (!), it relegates Bach to the "student horn" market at a "professional horn" price; a market "niche" that it controlled until Yamaha came along to spoil the party.

tpter1

Unions have done much to protect the workers who produce the goods that make the wallets of corporate CEOs fat. Without them, many workers would still be working in sweat-shop conditions, in unsafe environments for unsafe amounts of time, for little to no pay.

This is why American products are costly, and cannot compete in the foreign marketplace. Other countries do not have these protecgtions in place for their workers, so their overhead is significantly lower. Add to that a lack of tariffs due to free trade, and you have the current situation, compounded by tariffs on American products in other countries. This is what's causing the trade deficit and the loss of manufacturing jobs here in the US. It is simply too costly to maufacture a product here and sell it elsewhere or compete with companys that do not have to follow environmental regulations, safety regulations or minimum wage requirements or health care.

So, although our workers have safer conditions, better working conditions and we do more to protect the environment and observe human rights than some other countries do, it is coming at a cost for us.

I am on the union's side on this one.

richardwy

When I was in high school, America manufactured just shy of 100% of we used.

That arrangement allowed for regular folk with a high school or less education and a desire to work to live in a middle class way and better.

Shift happens. That's a statement of fact merely. What's missing of course is "People cause shift to occur." It's not like Venus springing full blown from the brow of Zeus.

Remember "China Town?" Jack Nicholson asks John Huston, what can't you buy with 1 million that you can buy with 4 million or words to that effect.



Richard

stchasking

Did you intend not to capitalize "America?"
I see you don't capitalize Germany either so I'll let this one slide. My grade school teachers are haunting me.

Vulgano Brother

Dang, I wish I'd said it first!