oldyoung_guy

I've been wondering for quite a while now....I play with a band and the other trumpet players are always telling me to play louder to the point where the trumpet sounds distorted and to my ears, ugly. This got me thinking about volume and loudness--i have seen the yamaha masterclass videos they have on their page. Many of them say that what makes a sound-sound loud is the amount of overtones not the volume of the playing.
So..what gives? by playing to the point of distortion, am i creating more overtones? if not, why do they want that distorted sound?

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A. Garcia

Markie

Hi oldyoung guy, I think there's a little problem with definitions here. Think of volume as energy and visually (as on a scope) a sine wave. The bigger the wave the louder it is. While it's true I've not had my coffee yet so bear with me while I stumble through. I think what they are talking about is "riching" up your sound. Not louder but "Fatter". Here's something you can try. When you play, project your sound. How? pretend(yes pretend) you're playing to the person in the back row. When my sound is a little less than I like, I pretend that I'm shooting the sound like a beam toward the back row of the concert hall. Now for the second part of kicking up your sound. When you play long tones, imagine the sound growing out from side to side. Not louder per sa, but fatter. What your fellow trumpet players may be saying is that your sound is a bit anemic. Hopefully by imagining the sound growing "out" from your body will help fatten up your sound. Think about it, when Miles davis played loud did it fatten his sound, I don't think so. Now this isn't to say I don't like Miles' sound, I do. However, let's take Maynard Ferguson' sound. When he would play soft it would have a different kind of richness to it. When he played loud, it would pin your ears back. Fat is the quality of sound, volume is how loud it is. If the sound sucks, it'll suck alot if it's loud. "Fat is Good!"

kadleck

I like much of what Markie said. I try to get a round, fat sound as opposed to a edgy, piercing sound. The analogy of making the sides of the bell vibrate helps me visualize what I'm going for.

Tony

bagmangood

Hmm,
I think the in the youtube symphony trumpet masterclass has something on this that might help
When they talk about more sound and less air in the mouthpiece, I've found that sort of image helps...

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Bb: Courtois 305 "Elite"
C: Bach C180-239 (Akwright conversion),
Cornet: Conn Wonder (1900)
Picc: Selmer Paris, ~1971

rowuk

Volume can be measured and is absolute, loudness is relative.

In a concert bands the entire brass section can get crazy. One piccolo flute can get over that noise with little problem. Our ears are more sensitive to the frequencies played by the flute, thats why it sounds lounder.

A trumpet player with a well supported sound will appear louder, even if the measured loudness is less.

I find that a fat sound is most useful when playing softly. You are well heard WITHOUT hurting somebody!

The trumpet is loudest right before the sound starts to get distorted. Effective practicing helps you play louder before your chops are not capable of fighting what the horn is dishing out!

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Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

Al Innella

I never play loud ,but I do play with the fullest sound I can get, I think of filling up the entire horn with air and sound, then project that sound to the back wall ,but never over blow for volume ,it only causes distortion. It all comes down to correct breathing.

Nerf

So...(don't make a fool of yourself here) what I think I'm hearing everyone say is that a "well supported" sound will "sound" louder than a "not-so-well supported" sound?! If that's the concept then I one-bazillion percent agree! The "project to the back wall" mentality works for sure.

I remember my professor in college always use to tell us that, at the VERY LEAST, you wanted to play to about 3 feet past the bell every time you put the horn in your face. No matter the dynamic level or ensemble. You could be in marching band, a practice room, wind ensemble or a solo recital...play "past" the bell & you'll get the full, rich sound you want.

So...ROWUK/TK...how far off am I?!

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Pain is weakness leaving the body.

Ya can't fix stupid!!!

1958 Mt. Vernon, NY Bach 37 Bb
1973 Elkhart, IN Bach "72" Bb (It started life as a 37)
1982 Elkhart, IN Bach 37 Bb
1989 R. Lawler C1L
Selmer Paris Bb/A Piccolo
Jerome Callet Bb Flugel
Slingerland F One-valve Bugel
(Not 100% sure of the dates on these)
1920 Conn Cornet (?)
1925 King Trumpet (?)
1947 Holton Collegiate Cornet (?)
Conn Cavalier (Haven't found an accurate date yet)

kadleck

Nerf -

Yes - I think that what you are saying makes sense.

"Full" is the key word!

Tony

rowuk

If you are in a nice sounding room, you play for the room. If you are outdoors, you are on auto pilot - only a good practice routine will give you the clues to stay in sensible bounds. I often look out of the window when practicing. Playing for the horizon is a pretty cool way to visualize BIG!

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Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

Ed Kennedy

Leon Merian used to talk about "spinning" the sound. At any volume there was always focus and presence. He would have me do ascending 8va scales and hold and crecendo the last note. he'd give me hell if it got distorted or blatty. He could bury band with his sound and it was beautiful.