Mute question for shows

WildTrumpet · 04-15-2008, 01:47 AM

Hey TK,

I've been having an argument with a fellow trumpeter about use of the harmon mute in musicals. The way I understand it is like this...

When the book says "harmon", that means "harmon with stem out". If is says "wa wa" or "wah" over the note(s), that means "harmon with stem in". Can you please clarify this? How is it done on Broadway?

Also, when the book says "hat" or "in hat", what kind of hat do you use? I have always used the red and white stone lined "derby", but I have seen others hang a baseball cap from their bell. What is the Broadway standard for "hats"?

Thanks for the help.

tedh1951 · 04-15-2008, 03:56 AM

Hey Alex,

Great question. I have a brace of mutes and also struggle to know the exact intonation each gives and when and where it/they should be used. Is there anyone out there amongst all you TMers who can help?

kadleck · 04-15-2008, 10:33 AM

Alex -

My guess is that you are correct. "Harmon" (to me) means no stem. (The exception might be some "classical" shows, though most writers are pretty good about saying, "with stem" if they want it.)

I just finished doing a show that had "harmon - stem 1/2 extended" in it. (Kind of a pain.)

Often the style of music dictates the use of the stem. In the 1930's, almost all harmon mute stuff was with a stem. Later on the opposite was true.

We usually just play in the stand or off mic when we see "in hat". Though certain writers (like Don Sebesky) insist on us using the stone lined derby. It is a cool sound but a drag to use.

Thanks -
Tony

WildTrumpet · 05-02-2008, 04:20 PM

Thanks for the responses. Sometimes, just when you think you have figured out "the rules", they change on you. I have always found it best to let my ear by my guide.

If you're interested, when the part calls for "hat", I have recently been draping my polishing cloth over the bell. It has a really nice sound! I was quite surprised. I have one of those 2-layered polishing cloths, so it is a bit thicker. You might want to try it just for fun.

brassmojo · 05-28-2008, 01:53 PM

That half-stem stuff is a pain. I think "Secret Garden" or some odd ball show like that called for a half stem.
From what I was taught when the music calls for "harmon" the stem is left in the bag. Wah-Wah stuff sounds better on Harmon with stem than a Solotone, mainly due to my arms aren't long enough to reach the end of the solotone mute---sort of lateral deficient.

3C

FourthPlayer · 05-31-2008, 10:09 AM

On Broadway's "Pajama Game" the mute changes were so intense the guys used two harmons... one with stem, and one without...now that's some fast mute changes.Generally, when you see "harmon" on the part it
means stem out...

trumpetnick · 05-31-2008, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FourthPlayer

Generally, when you see "harmon" on the part it
means stem out...

My english is not perfect, but the last time I checked "stem out" was not the same as "stem off"...

TrentAustin · 05-31-2008, 01:47 PM

I have "stem extended" written on the Producers' score I've been playing the past few weeks.

By the way Tony... you KILLED it on the cast recording. You sound tremendous.

Schwab · 05-31-2008, 02:08 PM

The Producers is a great score, Tony is the man! The version we played had solotone in Prisoners of Love, no harmon. Thats the only place I can think of that might have used that sound.

I think a lot of theaters are doing that show this summer, I'm playing it again too!

kadleck · 05-31-2008, 03:46 PM

Thanks guys. Brian O'Flaherty split lead on "The Producers" cast recording.

P.S. Dylan - give James the $1400 for horn, c'mon

04-15-2008, 01:47 AM	#1
WildTrumpet New Friend Join Date: May 2005 Location: Saint Paul, Minnesota Posts: 17	Mute question for shows Hey TK, I've been having an argument with a fellow trumpeter about use of the harmon mute in musicals. The way I understand it is like this... When the book says "harmon", that means "harmon with stem out". If is says "wa wa" or "wah" over the note(s), that means "harmon with stem in". Can you please clarify this? How is it done on Broadway? Also, when the book says "hat" or "in hat", what kind of hat do you use? I have always used the red and white stone lined "derby", but I have seen others hang a baseball cap from their bell. What is the Broadway standard for "hats"? Thanks for the help. __________________ Alex Kahler =========== Bach Strad 37 Bach Strad 37 Sterling Bell Yamaha 631G Flugel Bach 196 VBS piccolo Getzen "Severinsen" C Yamaha 761 Eb/D

04-15-2008, 03:56 AM	#2
tedh1951 Forte User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 2,420	Re: Mute question for shows Hey Alex, Great question. I have a brace of mutes and also struggle to know the exact intonation each gives and when and where it/they should be used. Is there anyone out there amongst all you TMers who can help? __________________ . Ted Last edited by tedh1951; 04-15-2008 at 04:02 AM. Reason: Punctuation.

04-15-2008, 10:33 AM	#3
kadleck Artist in Residence Mezzo Piano User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: new york Posts: 686	Re: Mute question for shows Alex - My guess is that you are correct. "Harmon" (to me) means no stem. (The exception might be some "classical" shows, though most writers are pretty good about saying, "with stem" if they want it.) I just finished doing a show that had "harmon - stem 1/2 extended" in it. (Kind of a pain.) Often the style of music dictates the use of the stem. In the 1930's, almost all harmon mute stuff was with a stem. Later on the opposite was true. We usually just play in the stand or off mic when we see "in hat". Though certain writers (like Don Sebesky) insist on us using the stone lined derby. It is a cool sound but a drag to use. Thanks - Tony

05-02-2008, 04:20 PM	#4
WildTrumpet New Friend Join Date: May 2005 Location: Saint Paul, Minnesota Posts: 17	Re: Mute question for shows Thanks for the responses. Sometimes, just when you think you have figured out "the rules", they change on you. I have always found it best to let my ear by my guide. If you're interested, when the part calls for "hat", I have recently been draping my polishing cloth over the bell. It has a really nice sound! I was quite surprised. I have one of those 2-layered polishing cloths, so it is a bit thicker. You might want to try it just for fun. __________________ Alex Kahler =========== Bach Strad 37 Bach Strad 37 Sterling Bell Yamaha 631G Flugel Bach 196 VBS piccolo Getzen "Severinsen" C Yamaha 761 Eb/D

05-28-2008, 01:53 PM	#5
brassmojo Pianissimo User Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 77	Re: Mute question for shows That half-stem stuff is a pain. I think "Secret Garden" or some odd ball show like that called for a half stem. From what I was taught when the music calls for "harmon" the stem is left in the bag. Wah-Wah stuff sounds better on Harmon with stem than a Solotone, mainly due to my arms aren't long enough to reach the end of the solotone mute---sort of lateral deficient. 3C

05-31-2008, 10:09 AM	#6
FourthPlayer New Friend Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 20	Re: Mute question for shows On Broadway's "Pajama Game" the mute changes were so intense the guys used two harmons... one with stem, and one without...now that's some fast mute changes.Generally, when you see "harmon" on the part it means stem out...

05-31-2008, 01:47 PM	#8
TrentAustin Forte User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 2,058	Re: Mute question for shows I have "stem extended" written on the Producers' score I've been playing the past few weeks. By the way Tony... you KILLED it on the cast recording. You sound tremendous. __________________ http://trentaustinmusic.com Consultant, S.E. Shires Trumpets Shires B59BLW "TA" model Bb trumpet Adams Gold Brass Flugelhorn Wedge Mouthpieces PM me for an appointment to try a Shires!

05-31-2008, 02:08 PM	#9
Schwab Moderator Forte User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NYC Posts: 1,691	Re: Mute question for shows The Producers is a great score, Tony is the man! The version we played had solotone in Prisoners of Love, no harmon. Thats the only place I can think of that might have used that sound. I think a lot of theaters are doing that show this summer, I'm playing it again too! __________________ Dylan Schwab Stage 1 New York

05-31-2008, 03:46 PM	#10
kadleck Artist in Residence Mezzo Piano User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: new york Posts: 686	Re: Mute question for shows Thanks guys. Brian O'Flaherty split lead on "The Producers" cast recording. P.S. Dylan - give James the $1400 for horn, c'mon

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