B15M

Hi Tony,

I recently took a job in a local big band where I split lead and forth.

We were playing a tune tonight and I glissed up to a high note. One of the sax players complained. It was a thing where beat 4 and then one of the next measure were both punched notes so I accented the first note and glissed to the next and cut it a little short.

Now that my description has totally confused you, my question is, when playing lead, how much liberty are you allowed. After the complaint I tried to play everything exactly as written. I thought it was a little square.

Thanks for the help,
Joe

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kadleck

Good question.

I really think it depends on a few things. How do you define "liberties"? What era was the music written in? ex.: If I put a bend or vibrato in "Pennsylvania-6500" it may sound cool. If I do the same thing in a Maria Schneider piece, it probably won't be cool.

When I was in High School I was in a regional band that played hard music. One chart had several high D's. Played some, missed some. The last note was (again) a high D. I ripped up to the high G above it. The leader stopped before we finished the last chord and said, "First, learn to nail ALL of the D's and THEN you can worry about the G's!" I was 17 and totally embarrassed, but he made a good point. Now, I mostly just try to play what the composer wrote. On occasion I will do something that adds flair, but I mainly stick to the page and try to "wow" them with: good pitch, big (not blatty) sound, a killing sense of time, and the ability to swing my butt off. There are tons of high note wanna be's. I wanna be Snooky Young!

OK, not meaning to imply that you were grandstanding in that particular situation. I just know that since I've become a writer I have less tolerance for not "sticking to the page". I don't mind if a player puts a turn or shake in on one of my charts (as long as they are consistent with it), but as far as notes are concerned I like hearing the ink.

Thoughts?

Tony

Bear

My Thoughts:

I think one ought to try and stick to the ink as much as possible unless they know the composer/arranger personally. Who knows what the composer was thinking and why they wanted that particular note/phrase/accent/etc... Part of being a good lead player is being able to tell the band what to do through your horn. If you're always adding stuff in, they might not listen to you all the time. You have to have great time, great sound, great intonation. I always think of a great lead player as making the band look good. A bad lead player as trying to make him/herself look good.

Now of course, there are those songs that you can have fun with... for instance some of the John Clayton blues charts and such.

Again, just my thoughts, I agree with Mr. Kadleck on this one.

__________________
The task of the modern educator is not to cut down jungles, but to irrigate deserts.
-C. S. Lewis

Life is about learning; when you stop learning, you die. -Tom Clancy

And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
-Revelation 8:6

Harold Zinno

I agree with Tony, read the ink. I played beside a great older lead player in Dallas named
Don Thomas. He just nailed everything that was put in front of him, but never embellished it.

B15M

The tune was "This could be the start of something big"

The note I glissed up to was a high D. I didn't change any notes, just the articulation. Written, both notes were tongued. I slurred up to the D because it was late in the night and I was worried if I tried to punch it I might miss the note. I personally think it was a stupid thing to pick on but want to play what is expected of a lead player.

If we play everything as written, wouldn't it sound a little square? Don't we have any freedom for expression? When I'm not playing lead, I try to listen and copy the style of the lead trumpet.

If One guy plays Lead and then another guy steps in and plays the same tune, should it sound exactly the same?

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rettepnoj

I think it's important to have the ability to make your own sound and personolize your playing, even as a lead trumpeter! But still, play the ink..:)

kadleck

I agree.

Playing the written stuff and making it NOT sound square is the trick. Taking plain notes on the page and bringing them to life is an art, I think. Do we have any freedom for expression? Sure - length of notes, volume, laying back, etc... will all be interpreted differently by different players.

If it sounds great, then YES. If it sounds lame, then NO! Seriously, of course it can sound different. The exception would be a broadway show, where they seem to like it the same way every night (even if it's lame)!

Tony

Bear

No, I think every player should bring a little of themself to the music. You might be playing the same piece by the same arranger on the same sized paper, BUT: If the two cats are knowledgable about their craft and are well-rounded, I'm sure it will sound a little different.

Again, there are exceptions such as Mr. Kadleck mentioned, broadway shows, etc. Also, in the classical world they do tend to expect things to be exactly traditional from player to player. However, in the recent years, that sentiment has been changing as well. Listen to CSO/Dallas/Pitts/etc play Mahler a few decades ago and then pop in a recent recording. Wow.

__________________
The task of the modern educator is not to cut down jungles, but to irrigate deserts.
-C. S. Lewis

Life is about learning; when you stop learning, you die. -Tom Clancy

And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
-Revelation 8:6

oldenick

If you only pissed off one sax player I would not stress about it.

__________________


Lawler PS 1
Curry 3c

B15M

Thank you all for the advice.Here is how I feel about it.

Weather playing "Legit" or Lead in a big band, the lead player puts his own feel into the piece. With jazz there is a little more freedom.

When I look at the charts I see an outline. As the lead player it's my job to fill in the blanks and make the thing swing. There are cretin things that are industry standard. You don't want to deviate too much or the band won't know what to expect.

So it's a fine line and the lead trumpet is allowed to embellish a little. Because the trumpet is in the back, the band should listen back an follow.

This is the line from Tony that I love. I might put it in my signature here.

"Taking plain notes on the page and bringing them to life is an art"

__________________
"Taking plain notes on the page and bringing them to life is an art" - Tony Kadleck


http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...ndid=238487314

http://webpages.charter.net/joespitzer/

http://www.trumpetwedding.com/