jazzfan

Dear Ms. Jensen,

First time poster here who just learned about this site and your forum. I'm a retired "hobby" trumpet player and a jazz fan. My wife and I enjoy going to concerts at a well known music school. We love to hear the big band play and support the students and the college. Many of these students are majoring in Jazz.When I was a growing up "majoring in jazz" would be spent touring with a band on the road for a couple of years. Now they get out of a 4 year degree with a piece of paper that says they majored in jazz and they owe 30-40 thousand on a student loan.

Then what? Not everyone can be the next Ingrid Jensen. I hear alot of talented kids and see new faces each year but what are they supposed to do when the graduate with their jazz degree. I hope their love for the music will take them far but I fear for them. Clubs are closing. Bands are gone. It seems like a tough road. Same holds true for any musician but in my opinion it's especially tough for these jazzers. I only hope the kids are well round musicians and trumpet players leaving with the ability to play piccolo on a wedding or sit in with an orchestra. If not their options are even more limited.

I guess my question for you is what do you think about the state of jazz education at the college level and the fact that we are turning out these young jazzers and there is no work out there. Are these schools doing the right thing? I guess its a bit of a sobering question but one I wanted to ask if you don't mind

A fan of yours,

jazzfan

administrator

Reminder: Please wait for Ingrid to respond before adding your own reply. Thank You!

Magnusverdixon

Jazzfan ...

Your post made me immediately think of the great midwest state of Ohio right now and actually since 911 ... we have everyone turning out with degrees not getting any work. I feel it is a travesty that a University would even allow a kid to major in Philosophy, Psychology or Art ... I majored in Psychology mostly because I was young, dumb and had no guidance ... what a huge mistake that was.

gridjam

As I just got back from 3 crazy tours I will keep my answer short guys. The short answer,I don't know. The long answer,I still don't know. I just met a bunch of students on my travels and I can say for sure-some will definitely go on to be players,some will not- they will teach or write or get into the business, or get a day job. The exciting and important thing is that they are learning a communication skill and are gaining an appreciation for a creative art form that is full of characters. I empathize with the big $ side of it all and am not sure it is so necessary- we played at a government funded arts school in Sweden that was really cool. We worked with students who are in between high school and college who are basically allowed to explore who they are in relation to music,painting,etc... without the big pressures that come with jumping right into a fancy school- these young players had tons of originality and soul! It was amazing! School for me was about meeting people and getting exposed to many directions and sources of inspiration. I don't know what is happening and/or what will happen with all of this education but if it means that young kids in this country get are going to be exposed to a style of music that requires responsible and passionate individual thought (such as playing their own solo on a blues) then I'm all for it. Beats the heck out of being glued to a TV or a playstation...

Siegtrmpt

Now that's the truth. The vast majority of musicians play because it makes their life better. Personally I'd rather see aspiring performers minor in music or jazz and not be so one dimensional at the undergraduate level. If a 20 something college graduate wants to devote a few years trying to make it as a performer then then have at it.

trpt2345

I don't know either. I had no idea what I was doing when I got out of school but by accident nd chance and just trying all the time I got to play some cool gigs with some good bands and meet interesting people along the way. There's no formula besides perseverance and trying and hanging around. My students seem to get gigs too, I don't know how, but they do.

Michael McLaughlin

camelbrass

I have a story that's somewhat related.

My son, who is a very keen guitarist, recently applied to a university in the UK to attend their jazz programme. He had the academic grades, not a problem...his 'portfolio' recorded to CD quality was 'excellent'..the interview and audition went well...unfortunately he didn't have any formal (Trinity or ABRSM) grades on guitar. Sorry, no cigar.

Jazz ain't what it used to be.

Regards,


Trevor


PS He did, however, get into their commercial music programme, so he's still involved in music..for better or for worse. I say got for it!!

Brekelefuw

As a student at a well known college who majors in jazz I believe that the degree is just a way of acquiring the foundations to make you into a great jazz player. It is what the students do with the time they have that matters.
Most of the really talented students are already starting to tour and get hired regularly, and some in that area don't even bother finishing school. The people who aren't as great get some time to reinforce the fundamentals and develop their own concepts.
I also think that in this day and age, there is so much variety in music, that a college is a great environment to learn about and develop skills in each area. Most jazz players who go through my college get jobs doing commercial work in jingle houses, musicals, teaching and classical playing. Their training in jazz helps them adapt to the different styles, making them a very versatile player.

beartrumpet74

This is a great thread and something that I have long questioned myself about in my own education. I started out playing for a living in the Navy and then on tour with blues and jazz groups, and then decided to go to school. I was struck by something the original poster said about the fact that not everyone can be the next Ingrid ( meaning a great player or up and coming artist or whatever you want to say about it)

As far as I'm concerned the major issue with jazz and schools isn't that fact that we are offering degrees for something that has a VERY hard career path, it's that we so often allow students to continue their study well past the point when it is obvious that they do not posses the skill, artistic chi I guess I call it, or the motivation to really make it ( by that I mean pay the bills and be happy) in the real world of music. I wish there were a good way to gently show these people that there may be better choices for them out in the world than that of a jazz musician or musician in general, which brings me to my next point.
I 'm not sure "jazzers" have it any harder than the rest of the music playing crowd. I know that because of the seemingly endless amount of years I have been forced to play classically, sometimes against my will, I CAN play picc at a wedding, play in a brass quintet, or something like that, BUT I can also play in a rock band, sing in a blues group, play either the lead or ride book in a big band, and I can arrange and compose big band charts, brass quintet pieces, horn section arrangements .... the list goes on and on...my point is not that I am special it's that I'm not so sure( as a matter of fact I KNOW), that the principle trumpeter of the orchestra from my city can't do many of the things I just mentioned and he IS a monster player. If anything, HIS musical education was limited by only studying classically and not having a wider exposure to playing and composing different types of music. If anything, I think the jazz people are better suited to adapt once they leave school.

WOW THIS IS GETTING LONG! SORRY !

All that being said, my honest opinion about jazz in schools is that the emphasis is in the wrong place musically (speaking of pedegogy and the style s taught), AND that if your aim is soley to perform you should do one of two things
1. Go to a school in a major city with one hell of a jazz scene like NY, LA, or Toronto, and "hook up" with people until you can quit school and play OR
2. Skip step #1, get a day job, and practice till you fall over at night and THEN hook up with cats who are playing.

NOTE: doing #2 will save you a LOT of money...

Anyway I hope I've added something here ...
Peace
Matt

Brekelefuw

I think it has a lot to do with the colleges and universities needing these students money to keep the facilities running up to par.