duval

I just got back from a well respected youth jazz course that caters for some of the best new musicians on the scene, and was shocked to hear that virtually every one of them considered Bitches Brew and onward to be absolute rubbish--- I felt pretty embarassed that I had enthused about some of that stuff so much afterwards! How common is this attitude within the Jazz community as a whole? Is it one you share Ingrid?

gridjam

NO! I don't share that attitude. In fact I find it both disturbing and sad!
Hey wait a minute,that statement includes myself and thousands of other respected players in this MASSIVE universe we are so fortunate to inhabit and play in.
Ouch and WOW!
By the way, don't be embarrassed, you are cool.
alright,I'll leave the smilies alone.

I'm a bit confused though-are you talking about the students or the teachers or both?
If it's the students, then keep exposing them to the hip stuff you are into.They will eventually get it, sometimes some people just need a minute to absorb things and grow into them, especially if they are only listening to Ellington, Louis and 'early Miles'.
I was freaked out by Woody Shaw when I first heard him, that changed as my ears and soul got exposed to things that connected me to his direction.
My advice-
If it's the teachers, GO TO ANOTHER CAMP next year.!
If it's the students, bummer, but keep trying.
In the meantime, check out the Port Townsend (www.centrum.org) jazz camp.
This summer Terrell Stafford, Jay Thomas and myself had a great time playing music from Kenny Dorham to Dave Douglas (drum and bass grooves) to Booker Little and beyond for the trumpet master classes.
Fun AND learning was had by all.
Take it easy Duval and keep searching and listening.
Ingrid

duval

First of all, thanks for the reassurance!!! The people I was talking about were the students not the tutors... (one of the tutors in particular got me into some really hip Coltrane stuff). The weird thing about the students is that in other respects they seem to be pretty broad minded, it was just Miles in the '70s that bugged them, like they thought he was a sellout! I would love to come along to the jazz course you mention but I live in Scotland, so maybe I'll leave that for when I finally make it over to the States! Also just out of interest, on some of the 70's albums (Live Evil I think) the liner notes say Miles is playing an electric trumpet...is this a miked up trumpet with a wah, or something else entirely?

mikeman7

WOW. I'm really glad to hear that it was NOT the teachers. I got nervous for a minute.

Yeah, if it was the kids, don't worry about it. They don't know what they're talking about. Playing 10 to 15 minute tunes of free jazz improvisation is not "selling out"!

if you like that stuff, Columbia reissued all 5 live albums from that period about 10 years ago (which includes Live Evil). They're double CDs and it's all great stuff.

and yes, Miles is just playing his horn miked with electric effects including a wah pedal.

trpt2345

Some people, critics as well as musicains, get the vapors when they hear an electric bass. My usual response is f^%& them, and pay attention to what is happening in the music. Bitches Brew is a masterpiece, and there is a whole lot that came after it that was great music. Wynton to the contrary notwithstanding. The music world is not the music business as Ornette said, and we happen to be in a sad state right now. But persevere and hang in there, trends are there for the changing and the received wisdom twenty years from now will be very different from what it is now. Joke 'em if they can't take a f**& as Robin Williams said. Don't listen to ANYONE, not even me, go by what you feel. That's really in the end the essence of jazz. There is no cannon, no accepted version of anything, just what you respond to. Go for it. It's what YOU hear and feel, not anyone else's agenda.

MM

gridjam

YES!!! thank you for this post!!! I couldn't have said it better myself. am stealing all of it!!!!
Want to post my reply on what I practice (and will get to it-I promise!) but am a bit behind thanks to a leak in my horn that I had to get fixed and a bunch of music I've got to shed for Brazil this week and ,oops-oh yes, all of my effects that need bubble wrapped and packed so they make it safely down south.
:)
Speaking of great 'MUSIC'. I saw a very electric and very happening band this week. Cindy Blackman and co. at Dizzy's. Too bad they had to play at the DIET COKE, Women in Jazz Festival, an event that I boycott as a leader for a number of reasons. Will open a new forum topic on it soon. Peace and happy playing. Will do my best to get online poolside next week in Rio. This week is going to be a bust with travel,rehearsals, clinics,soundcehcks and FINALLY, the gig in Ouro Preto.
Ij over and out.

BergeronWannabe

Thanks, Ingrid! whenever you get a chance, I know you're busy. I'm just feeling a little overwhelmed lately with school, practice, work, etc.
I know there is just SO much to do and sometimes I think I won't get to it all. I just don't want to get discouraged, maybe you can give me a glimmer of hope!
Andrew

ilikethetrumpet

With the big band here I'm playing a feature on Tutu now, and that's led me to go back and check out some more 80s stuff again and reevaluate it from the standpoint of a player. First of all, exhibit A for "he had no chops" is "Decoy." Those tunes are complex, the melodies difficult and angular, and the solos are absolute throwdowns. And as for the live stuff, the band with Kenny Garrett featured really simple tunes and forms--but rather than making this music weak (it's not as dense and shifty as, say, Pangea or even In a Silent Way) the sense of dialogue in the band is on a par with any of the fifty or sixties bands. (Well, maybe not quite, but at least in the same ballpark.) Coltrane, Wayne and Miles would finish each other's sentences, but Kenny and Miles would actually speak together. It really brings out the best in Kenny Garrett too, because he has humongous chops but checks his ego at the door and really gets in the vibe, every moment, with all the clipped Miles phrases. The Munich Concert--it's a budget three-disc set, has some different recordings than Live around the world--It's worth a second, third, or fiftieth listen.

duval

Yeah, the 80s stuff is really cool as well...a particular favourite of mine is the album We Want Miles. It has some insane electric guitar playing on it, Bill Evans (the sax one, obviously ) plays well, Miles is in good shape and holding it all together is the multi-talented Marcus Miller on bass. Has anyone here heard the humongous 21 cd box set of Miles' 80's stuff...would you recommend it if you have?

trpt2345

I have the Montreux set: it's really the only way to understand the 80's music with any comprehensiveness. The studio recordings, particularly after he left Columbia, were not really representitive of how the band sounded. There's a ton of great music in the box set. And what's impressive too is that on some days there are two 75 to 90 minute sets in one day, a loot of playing for a trumpet player, especially as he was getting on in years. Kenny Garrett, Darryl Jones, Al Foster, Scofield, Kei Akagi, Deron Johnson, Marcus Miller, all fine players. And like everyone who played with him, they all sound different with Miles than they did on anything else in their careers.

Michael McLaughlin