MrLT

Hi Ingrid

firstly let me say its a true delight to see you involved with TM. I have been doing some recording using a harmon mute in a studio. The engineers are quite experienced but not when it comes to getting the best sound out of one of these. The other problem is that the sound which can be got from a harmon can very enormously depending on how its blown and its positioning relative to a mike. I'm essentially after a dark-breathy sound similar to Miles recording on Round Midnight. If I'm playing through a PA at a gig I'll cosy right up to the microphone and blow fairly softly. In the studio we tried recording with the microphone ~5 inches from the central hole and offset. The engineers really didn't want me blowing right into the mike. Also the nearer you are in a studio then slight changes in mike-bell distance will have a more pronounced effect on levels. So thats my experience, but if you have recorded using a harmon mute how has it been set up in the studio for the sound you are after? also does the type of mike have a crucial effect?

gridjam

Thanks so much MrLT.It's fun to be here and I have a bunch of saved replies that I am going to post in various areas in the next days.
Ahhh, the harmon and the sound man. Don't get me started. If a singer can get up close and get there lipstick all over a mic and scream or sing at full volume, then why can't we? And we aren't even going to scream! That' why I bring my own VERY expensive mic to gigs and sessions. 5 inches away is too far for most mics, sounds more like a mosquito than a warm fuzzy voice. There are some that are able to capture the sound you (we) are looking for ( I actually used a combination of one with an old ribbon on Maria's new record), let me researce the name for you. In the mean time, best to bring in recordings of the sound you are looking for and have the 'ears' hear them, then convince them to let you play closer (they can bring the gain down in the control room) so they can get a sense of how easy it is to capture what you are going for. If you can do all of this without pissing them (him) off, you are not only going to get the beautiful sound you are looking for- BUT you are a genius! HA, just kidding but we all have had experiences where the sound guy has really limited our expression with his or her lack of knowledge. Good luck.
last suggestion...have the mix set in a way that it is not too high -endy. Roll off some of the top highs, pull up the low end a wee bit and ask for a few notches of high-mid range frequencies- this can give you that airy feeling without sounding messy.

gridjam

oops, I meant to write (him OR her) in the brackets there...it's been a long day- go easy on me folks.
IJ over and out

gridjam

one more oops and I'm out of here....
Guy OR GAL!!!!

gridjam

ps,
I put my harmon right up to the mic- almost touching it, and positioned straight into the most active area of reception...I took some time messing around with it to find the sweet spot in relation to both mute and mic. I also have a spectacular old copper harmon from the 50's ...I love it.

JunkyT

A ribbon mic is certainly the way to go! One day...

The last time I recorded with a harmon, the engineer did just what Ingrid said...tried to set me up 8 inches from the mic! He was using some expensive mic that was his baby, and the sound was awful. I finally convinced him to let me use a dreaded SM58, got right up on it, and the sound was warm and buzzy.

That's also what I do when I play live...put the bell of the harmon, if you will, right on the screen of the mic.

Grav

I bought a great ribbon mic last year and use it for both live gigs and recordings. It's an Oktava ML-52-1 -- Russian made but available in the states through OktavaUSA. I think they're in Iowa. Very affordable price at just over $400. Almost every "sound man" here in Italy loves this mic when I bring it and on return gigs, they always remember it. In fact, Tom Harrell used it on a gig here in Rome at the Casa del Jazz a week and a half ago and told me afterwards how much he dug it. A mic well worth checking out. You can get right up on it with the harmon or without the harmon as well.

Jon Kratzer

Definitely invest in a ribbon mic if you plan on spending much time in the studio. The last few times I was in the studio I used if I'm thinking correctly a Royer SF-24. That mic was absolutely insane, had fantastic impedance matching too so you don't have to worry about blowing it out, how ever it does require phantom power, although I've not been in any reputable studio that doesn't have phantom lol.

Unfortunately I don't own my own microphone, the investment just hasn't outweighed the profit yet. I'll be in Pacific Palisades next month, just outside of Los Angeles for a recording session, it'll be interesting to see what equipment they have in that neck of the woods.

Good Luck!

Jon

MrLT

Thanks for your valuable comments. The studio I use has invested in a ribbon mike (Beyer M160) - just after I finished a session using harmon mute !. for my recording they used a high quality dynamic mike a Sennheiser MD421. I have also since heard that a ribbon mike is probably not a good choice for live work because it is mechanically fragile and can be damaged by phantom power through a faulty mike lead. They also found a useful thread on the gearslutz forum

Help with Harmon mute - Gearslutz.com

I'm going back into the studio just to try various combinations of setup, mike, positioning and eq just to get the optimal sound characteristics - if anything interesting comes of this I'll post it.

Grav

With the Oktava ribbon mic no phantom power is required so i feel ok about using on live gigs. In fact I bought it more for the live gigs.